“Retelling Our Root Story Is a Very Important Thing As a Taiwanese Musician. We Have So Many Interesting And Beautiful Stories In This Small island, I Don’t Want These To Be Forgotten.”
Q1: First of all, your Japan tour with Fintroll & Metsatoll has been announced! How do you feel now? Are there any places you want to go?
【BLOODY TYRANT】: We are really really excited about it! This is the first time for Bloody Tyrant’s new line up tour in Japan, we just can’t wait to let Japanese fans see the new Tyrant!!!
Personally, I want to go to Meiji Jingū again, it’s such a beautiful place to visit!
Q2: You have performed in Japan several times. Can you tell us about some of your most memorable moments?
【BLOODY TYRANT】: The first time we performed in Japan was 2016, with Anaal Nathrak. After a few months, I went to Loud Park, and I saw fans wearing our merch there, and even some of them recognized me in the arena. I’m really moved about this, Japan is such a nation of Rock and Metal music in Asia!!!.
Q3: Are there any influences from Japanese music, anime, or video games?
【BLOODY TYRANT】: Yes, manga, シグルイ influenced me the most! And the novel which also include the story of シグルイ, 駿河城御前試合。
We have a song which based on the final chapter of 駿河城御前試合, titled 劍士皆亡.
Q4: What do you think about the significance of retelling Taiwan’s myths and history in metal?
【BLOODY TYRANT】: Taiwan is located in the middle of the first island chain, which has a very complex history and many different influences from our neighbor. So retelling our root story is a very important thing as a Taiwanese musician. We have so many interesting and beautiful stories in this small island, I don’t want these to be forgotten.
Q5: What is it about the traditional Pipa that makes the band so special to you? Is it difficult to use it in metal?
【BLOODY TYRANT】: It’s a funny story for me to add pipa in our music, it was a boring night many years ago, I’m being a couch potato and scrolling through every channel of television, when I scrolled to a movie channel and it was playing 十面埋伏(House of Flying Daggers), and there is a famous classical music played by pipa also titled 十面埋伏, then this idea just struck my head, “Why not adding pipa into metal music!?”
And actually, using pipa in metal music is not difficult at all! This instrument has a very percussive sound and will stand out quite easily, perfect for playing lead melody within metal music!
Q6: Sometimes you guys deal with themes of Japanese origin, such as the Sakai Jiken or Hagakure, don’t you? Why is that?
【BLOODY TYRANT】: In my point of view, Japan has been the most important influence for Taiwan, especially the time period during World War II, and the army was influenced by Bushido a lot, so I was thinking, “Why not start from here?”
Even though the war is over for decades, I can still feel there are some Japan-influenced things in my daily life, and I can also feel that Bushido still affects Japanese people’s mindset, little by little.
Q7: We live in a dark world of pandemics, wars, and a divide. Taiwan in particular has some difficult political, diplomatic issues, how are you dealing with those political and social issues?
【BLOODY TYRANT】: “More caring, less ignoring”
I always tell my friend to care about international, political issues more, because in my point of view, how you deal with these topics will be the way it goes back on you. Politics is all about our daily life
Q8: Chthonic is one of the most famous Taiwanese metal bands in the world. And Jesse Liu does a great job on your albums as well. They are really a political band, right? What do you think about them and To change society with metal?
【BLOODY TYRANT】: Part of our former album was produced in Jesse Liu’s studio, he had done a great job on tweaking our guitar tone!
Chthonic has always been my most respected band, not just telling historical stories, but also promoting Taiwan Indiependent, which is always against communism as well.
Q1: You have decided to come to Japan for the first time! You guys sometimes use animated stuff in your artwork and videos. First of all, please tell us about Japan and your impressions of Japanese anime and game culture.
【LAURI】: It is indeed a great honour to travel to our first concerts in Japan, we have tried many times before to find contacts and opportunities to perform in the Land of the Rising Sun, it has not been easy for the Estonian band, after all, Japan is quite far from us. Both physically and certainly culturally. Although it must be said that we humans here and there certainly see many things in the same way, both Estonians and Japanese. Regardless of the ever-increasing pressure of a Western culture on small nations, we have preserved a rather ancient worldview in the culture of our people, which is reflected in a non-dual worldview. Everything depends on the perspective of the observer and the interpretation of phenomena, the essence of which is not stuck in endless negativism or positivism, there are no heroes and anti-heroes, completely good or bad. This worldview is also in the art of the Estonian artist Jüri Arrak, with whom we have had the honor to collaborate. You can find Arrak’s art and animations on Metsatöll’s albums and videos. To the sadness of all of us, Jüri Arrak is no longer with us, he passed away a year ago.
It is fascinating that the same kind of non-dual world view can be observed also in Japanese animation, I am of course not talking about everything that concerns Japanese-like expressions, probably more about what I myself have experienced and what I have managed to observe. Of course, I have been impressed by Studio Ghibli and especially Hayao Miyazaki’s work, it can be argued whether “Neko no ongaeshi”, “Sen to Chihiro no kamikakushi” or “Kurenai no buta” are intended for children or adults, but the topics they deal with and how they reflect the world is timeless and certainly expresses the human nature more clearly than the typical Hollywood world. Art must raise questions, and questions make people think. This is one of the basic principles of human nature, when we stop analyzing and thinking, even about the meaning of life and human nature, we stop being a part of the world. However, if we detach ourselves from reality and the world itself, will the world still be able to accept us and maybe even tolerate us. By turning into a cancer-tumor of the planet, we cannot be sure of that.
A non-dual world view, love of traditions and myths, telling stories is definitely something that unites Estonian and Japanese culture.
Maybe it’s changing, I can’t comment on it because I don’t have a TV, I don’t know what’s shown and what’s being watched. I also don’t spend my days playing computer games, maybe everything is different there and the narratives that are told are already different. How I see the transmission of cultures over time is that each nation and tribe has primordial features and knowledge, which have become like the root-texts of one nation, something that has been learned and heard from one’s parents, grandparents, etc. These texts from the primeval times still influence the culture of the people, we see the world from the same perspective as our predecessors, but during the triumph of mass communication, this is changing, we copy and imitate also cultures that are a mouse-click away, but are unfamiliar and alien. In the global world, non-habituation becomes habituation, little by little we lose our own face. However, there is a counter-movement in folk cultures, a counter-reaction of the people themselves, we are looking for our roots and true self, it is good if it is preserved and does not lose its relevance in today’s culture. Metsatöll is one of those milestones in the Estonian resistance movement in the global soup pot.
Q2: You guys sing about Estonian folklore and traditions, but Japan also has a long history and various myths. Do you feel any sympathy for Japan？
【LAURI】: I have respect for all cultures, especially those who dare to be themselves without feeling false shame about their folk culture, who are proud of their roots and ancestors. I am not talking about the ethnocentrism that we can sometimes find in extremist national-movements, nor the racial centrism. By respecting our own culture, we also learn to respect the stranger, even if we cannot agree with them and don’t share the same values.
What also unites the traditional world view of Japan and Estonia, as I see it, is respect for your opponent, even if fate has taken you to different sides in the fight, there is no reason to think that the opponent does not deserve respect after death.
This is reflected in the Estonian traditional peasant culture in the same way, perhaps you have noticed something similar in Japan – if a person hunts or keeps animals, uses their meat, milk, labor, then the peasant treats these animals in the same way as his own equal, although apparently, as per the 21st century worldview, the person would be an imaginary at the top of the pyramid of exploitation, traditional peasant wisdom still points to the fact that we are and will remain just a tiny cog in the throbbing-steaming world machine.
Q3: It is difficult to imagine hard rock and metal music in Estonia, but can you tell us how you got into such music in such a place? What is the Estonian hard rock and metal scene actually like?
【LAURI】: I can say that looking at the world from here in tiny Estonia, it is equally difficult to imagine Japanese bands and what they could sing about or what kind of music they could play! The only solution to dispel such fog is to see with your own eyes and listen with your own ears what is actually being done over there on the other side of the world.
As you can imagine, just like in any band, Metsatöll, even though there are only four of us, are people with very different worldviews, different musical backgrounds, and different preferences. What unites us is respect for Estonian culture, -language and metal. So, putting all this together, it makes perfect sense that our songs are in Estonian languages (we write texts in the dialects of different Estonian localities, we use archaisms and language layers from different eras), woven through Estonian history, and of course metal.
In general, however, Estonian music is quite the same as in other parts of the world, it especially concerns both rock and metal genres. We cannot get over or around the world’s music trends, but there are also quite original, let’s say, Estonian-ish bands and musicians with a unique musical-language. In the last decade, Estonian folk music has become very relevant again, so there have been quite a few bands that use Estonian folk songs, folk instruments and want to reflect Estonian culture.
Q4: Why did you decide to combine Estonian folk music with metal? Did you think it would work so well from the beginning?
【LAURI】: The music we make is very closely related to the people who play the instruments and write the songs for us. Metsatöll started as a basement band, so there was no desire to succeed in the global music market. There was also no plan to think, or to direct this thought in any special way, whether the use of Estonian folk instruments and the folk sound and Estonian language could somehow be useful for breaking through and whether it should therefore be emphatically national.
It cannot be denied that we would not have noticed that people like this certain national self-expression. In retrospect, one can think that surely no one would know much about Metsatöll if we had played the kind of music that all Estonian metal bands did anyway. songs in English, copying idols from other world.
It can also be said that such an indigenous approach in the early years of Metsatöll was not a very safe way to become famous and loved. Of course we were funny, the others were serious copies of Immortal, Exodus, My Dying Bride etc, we just did some incomprehensible thing in Estonian. This led to the doubts of some band members as to whether Estonian folk instruments should still be played in our metal music, and if so, should they be played so much? But fortunately, our listeners made this choice easier for the band – Metsatöll has become one of Estonia’s national symbols. So a big thank you to our supporters.
Q5: You guys also use Estonian traditional instruments as lead instruments, almost like guitars, Could you introduce some of the traditional instruments?
【LAURI】: Yes, I have been playing Estonian folk instruments since I was quite young, and I am glad that they have also merged into Metsatöll’s music. So I have the opportunity not only to direct Metsatöll music, but also Estonian music in a broader sense. Why not more broadly, it’s no secret that so many bands in the world have found the desire to use their folk instruments in metal music, just like Metsatöll. We are only happy about it.
I find, at least for me, that it is important when playing folk instruments not only to play these instruments, but also to know the history of these instruments, how they sounded, and how they were played historically and from where these instruments probably came from.
A lot could be said and written about these Estonian folk instruments that sound in Metsatöll, in fact, I have a book about the Estonian bagpipes in preparation, but will anyone be able to read about it all in one short interview and what the reader might find exciting and what they would like to know about these instruments, that is the question .
I play the Estonian bagpipe – “torupill”, it is one of a very large family of instruments known all over the world. Most people know the Scottish bagpipes, but the Estonian bagpipes are quite different, it belongs to the group of Eastern European bagpipes, its easier to play and it sound a little softer. In Estonia, the bagpipe has been known since the 16th century, but its age is probably much older, in our cultural area, bagpipe playing has been known since the 14th century, while it should be noted that the historical first mention of any phenomenon does not always mean the beginning of that phenomenon. Especially since Estonian culture has always been an oral culture for the most part, written texts and documents are quite late. Therefore, we cannot determine the birth of many historical events and objects. We will stick to the fact that torupill is a very old instrument loved by Estonians.
I also play the Estonian “kannel”, which is a bit similar to the Japanese Koto. The kannel is also a very old and historical Estonian instrument, its age is believed to be even 2000 and more years in Estonia, even 4000 years has been suggested, but we cannot be sure of that (linguistical approach). However, when determining the age of each instrument, one aspect must also be taken into account – what instruments did the representatives of our people, our ancestors, actually play thousands of years ago, for example 6000 years ago? It would be absurd to think that they played nothing. It is true that a whistle made of bone has been found in the grave of a child buried in Estonia 6000-7000 years ago. There was also another remarkable find in the grave of this child – the wings of a Common Crane (Grus grus lat.) were placed in the grave by both hands. What they symbolized, and whether it was related to the whistle, which probably could represent the sound of the Crane, we do not know. But it creates respect for the people who lived back then.
I also play whistles and flutes in Metsatöll. Also parmupill, the jaw-harp, which is known almost everywhere in the world. And occasionally a hiiukannel, which was probably brought to Estonia from the Swedish area of Finland. The historical name of this instrument is Estonian-Swedish: Talharpa, translated as horsehair-harp or pine-harp. It also somewhat resembles bowed instruments in Japan.
Q6: The Estonian language also makes you guys stand out! Is it important to you to sing Estonian folklore in Estonian?
【LAURI】: I think it could be important for all the bands to sing in their own language. In your own language, you can express something that is culturally impossible to translate, which would be lost in translation. When singing and writing in a foreign language, the language deteriorates, simpler and simpler forms with simpler and simpler universal symbols come into use. We do not wish to contribute to the degeneration of cultures.
It is true that singing in certain languages could presumably contribute to the increase in popularity as well as intelligibility, but in that case, a large part of the world could sing in Spanish or Chinese. The logical error of the English language using in small nations also arises in connection with the fact that we expect that other nations would receive us better if we sang in a language they could understand. Come to your senses! First, it’s time to learn something about your own culture, and then learn other languages semantics that you don’t understand. And we would happily not expect that when a band comes to play from, for example, Burkina Faso or Nepal, that they will sing songs in English.
Q7: Recently BLOODYWOOD and THE HU, have made it big by incorporating traditional music from their home countries into metal. Including you guys, Why do you think that folk metal, which incorporates its own roots and culture in this way, is starting to come back into the limelight again?
【LAURI】: The use of native culture and national sound language in mainstream and popular music has been continuous. We can mainly talk about the change of musical currents and genres, in which the sound language and folk music of our people are interwoven. However, The Hu and other similar hot bands have made it possible that, in general, maybe 21st century mainstream music is seen as an opportunity to play music at big festivals for a lot of people, without the culture and musical mother tongue losing its face. Of course, there are also compromises here – for example, a large part of the world’s traditional music cannot be played on a piano or a guitar, because these instruments simply do not have such notes and scales. The same problem is, of course, in Estonian folk music – tempered tuning and -rhythm breaks the traditional approach. But we have the opportunities we have, there’s nothing we can do about it. This is also why I prefer to sing Estonian folk songs without accompanying instruments and arrangements.
That folk-metal in its most literal sense (folk metal that uses the musical-language of its people, uses folk instruments, folk songs, its native language. I don’t mean here the music that plays, no doubt cool and good, just metal music, dresses medieval-romantically and plays between guitar-riffs the melodies that are inspired by movie-music) is on the rise again, is great. It is important to know what are the roots of your people and what was the culture and music of your ancestors. Roots have incredible power. A leaf may think that it is above the roots, and no doubt it really is, nevertheless, as soon as autumn comes and the leaf on the tree feels that it is free from the distressing direction of the food chain by the roots, the meaning of this leaf disappears – it becomes soil again in the spring, which in turn feeds the roots, if it goes well. If it gets worse, a sheep comes with its own food chain problems, and we already know very well what happens to the leaf when it is digested.
Q7: 最近、BLOODYWOOD や THE HU が母国の伝統音楽をメタルに取り入れて大成功を収めました。あなたたちも含めて、このように自国のルーツや文化を取り入れたフォーク・メタルが再び脚光を浴び始めているのはなぜだと思いますか？
【LAURI】: メインストリームやポピュラー音楽における土着文化や民族音語の使用は絶え間なく続いている。私たちは主に、民族の音言葉と民族音楽が織り成す音楽の流れやジャンルの変化について語ることができる。しかし、THE HU や他の似たようなホットなバンドのおかげで、一般的に、21世紀の主流音楽は、文化や音楽の母国語の面目を失うことなく、大きなフェスティバルで多くの人々に音楽を演奏する機会として捉えられているのかもしれない。
もちろん、ここにも妥協はある。例えば、世界の伝統音楽の大部分はピアノやギターでは演奏できない。これらの楽器には西洋的な音符や音階がないからだ。同じ問題は、もちろんエストニアの民族音楽にもある。調弦やリズムが伝統的なアプローチを壊してしまうのだ。でも、私たちにはチャンスがあるのだから、どうすることもできない。これが、私がエストニアの民謡を伴奏楽器やアレンジなしで歌うことを好む理由でもある。
最も文字通りの意味でのフォーク・メタルが再び人気を得ているのは素晴らしいことだよ。ここでいうフォーク・メタルとは民族の音楽言語を使うフォーク・メタルで、民族楽器、民謡、母語を使う。中世的なロマンチックな衣装を身にまとい、ギター・リフの合間に映画音楽にインスパイアされたメロディーを奏でる “フォーク・メタル” もクールで良い音楽であることは間違いないが、あれはただのメタル・ミュージックだ。 自分の民族のルーツが何なのか、先祖の文化や音楽が何だったのかを知ることは重要だ。ルーツにはすごい力がある。しかし、秋が来て、木の葉が根による食物連鎖の苦しい方向から解放されたと感じるや否や、この葉の意味は消えてしまう。羊に消化されると葉がどうなるかは、すでによく知られている。
Q8: Since last year, Russia’s atrocious aggression against Ukraine has continued. Estonia and Japan, which are close to Russia, are no strangers to this. In such times, do you think your folk metal will be one of the factors to strengthen the hearts of people in your home country?
【LAURI】: I’m absolutely sure of that. It is sad that we live in such a world at the moment. But, of course, we have lived in it for centuries and managed, survived for the most part. The habit of war-loving dictators to drag their people into perpetual distress and misery is depressing. The contempt that the rest of the world reflects on the dictator is transferred to its people. 150 years ago we could not yet speak of nations, then the time of self-awareness of nations had just begun, we did not have a direct subconscious need to despise all the nation. Now this subconscious has started to work in full, what will happen to the people who call themselves Russians, no one knows. We do not want confrontation and opposition, but we have no other options. Undoubtedly, we as a nation always feel more secure when we have spokespeople, musicians and leaders who encourage their people to be reasonable and themselves, full-fledged descendants of their people.
【LAURI】I’m not so sure if music can change a life. Rather, life changes, and with it you discover music for yourself, which remains into your memories, which you can later recall as milestones in your life, when everything changed, including your worldview, preferences, life. But there is nothing more to all of this than you have simply become older.
The deepest musical experiences are often not related to albums, but to direct performances. 1. As a child, I would skip guitar lessons and sneak out to the concert hall door to listen to the organ play. 2. Thanks to my friends, as a young boy I came across the concert of GGG, one of the first big heavy-metal bands in Estonia. 3. As a teenager, I ran away from home with the plan of never coming back and heard a piano player in Poland playing Frédéric Chopin’s Nocturne No. 20. 4. While on the American tour, I snuck out the back door of a New York club to calmly smoke my pipe and enjoy the aroma of good tobacco in the dim streets of the real Metropolis. There was an old black man, who asked me for a few pennies, said that he was not a beggar, but a wanderer, and that he had also sung songs himself. I heard something that folk song collectors probably heard 100+ years ago in old south of USA – a man sang work songs from old Alabama that he learned from his grandfather. 5. In the fall of 2023, while on a Japanese tour, I met a person who.. (hopefully I can complete this fifth experience when I return from your country)
We are really looking forward to these Japanese concerts, as well as meeting the awesome people there. If You should meet us, after or before the concert, don’t be afraid to exchange a few words with us, we are ordinary Estonian people and nothing makes us happier than a good reception and direct contact with exciting people from Japan. I think that the first question for us when we are back in Estonia is how we felt then, what the people were like and what the listeners thought of Estonian music. Without a cool audience and nice conversations, it would be difficult to answer these questions.
Suur tänu ja ägedate kohtumisteni Jaapanis!
日本でのコンサートをとても楽しみにしているよ。私たちは普通のエストニア人で、日本のエキサイティングな人々と直接触れ合い、良い歓迎を受けることほど嬉しいことはないんだから。エストニアに戻ったとき、私たちにとって最初の疑問は、そのとき私たちがどう感じたか、人々はどうだったか、リスナーはエストニアの音楽をどう思ったかということだと思う。クールな観客と素敵な会話がなければ、こうした疑問に答えることは難しいだろうね
Suur tänu ja ägedate kohtumisteni Jaapanis！
“I Was Struck With Incredibly Profound Emotion. It Was Probably Then That I Was Fully Set On Dedicating This Album To The Three Kingdoms Period, And More Specifically, To The Brothers Of Liu Bei, Guan Yu, and Zhang Fei.”
Q1: Singapore has the image of being a very modern, rich, and beautiful country. I have interviewed WORMROT before, but what is the state of the metal scene in your country right now?
【HASTHUR】: Perhaps I am not the best person to answer this question because I have mostly kept to myself these past few years, especially during the pandemic, and intend to persist in this seclusion for the foreseeable future. But from what I know, I feel the current metal scene in Singapore is in an awkward position where most of the notable bands of the 90s and early 2000s (Beheaded Nasrani, Impiety, Abhorer, Infernal Execrator, Nechbeyth, As Sahar, Draconis Infernum, etc.) have either (a), split up; (b), are not active locally (as in the case of Draconis Infernum); or are (c), have not been active (recording new music or playing shows) for many years; and as for the bands that have come after them – I will only say, refraining from explicitly naming any one in particular, that most do not tend to stay around for very long. The gig situation is not much better. A lot of live venues that were around when I first entered the scene have since closed down due to economic reasons or worse, senseless scene politics and drama; this, in addition to the recent rut of inflation that Singapore has found itself in, has lead to the cost of organising live shows rising tremendously, especially when it comes to renting out spaces.
All this is not to imply, however, that the scene is “dying” in any sense of the word. On the contrary, in spite of these conditions, there have been a number of killer bands that have formed in the past few years, most notable of which would have to be metal-adjacent HM-2 Death/Punk act, Doldrey (I was fortunate enough to catch them opening for Japanese Death/Doom maniacs Anatomia in June!). As long as such bands continue to churn out great releases, and carry on the spirit of underground music, there is nothing to worry about. The core of any metal scene will always be, first and foremost, the music it produces.
Q2: You play black metal that deals with Chinese history and culture, do your roots lie in China?
【HASTHUR】: Indeed. Like most Singaporeans from a Chinese background, I was born in Singapore, but I am, in blood and spirit, Han Chinese (漢). My ancestors originated from China, and it was only during the turbulence of the early 20th century that some of them decided to set sail for the southern seas. It just so happens that one of them ended up in Singapore!
Q3: Singapore is almost a dictatorship, and I hear that many young people are politically dissatisfied. Perhaps that could be the same for China. Is there any suppression of metal and hardcore music?
【HASTHUR】: I agree with your characterisation of Singapore as “almost a dictatorship,” and indeed there are many youths that are dissatisfied with the current political climate. In particular, there has been a series of scandals involving high-ranking officials from the ruling People’s Action Party (PAP) that has stirred up debate amongst citizens about the current state of the Singaporean government. However, I think many fail to realise how much better we have it compared to a lot of other countries. Yes, there is no denying that Singapore has been ruled by the PAP since its inception, but the party has done a good job in managing the country. And unlike what ignorant westerners would like people to believe, Singaporeans do not live in a dystopian police-state where a thought-crime will land someone in a re-education camp. Yes, I must admit that some freedoms are limited here, such as freedom of the press; but for the vast majority of people, the government does not impinge upon personal freedom: on the level of the individual, I do not believe Singaporeans are any less free when compared to your average Japanese citizen. If I had to describe Singaporean politics and/or the government in a single word, it would be “inoffensive,” “dull,” or something along those lines. This is where my “praise” of the government must end, though.
To answer your question of whether there is any suppression of metal and hardcore music. The short answer is “no,” and the slightly longer answer would be “not directly.” There exists a government body in Singapore known as the Infocomm Media Development Authority (IMDA). Whenever someone wants to organise a live show or bring over an overseas band, information such as identity of band members, song lyrics and titles, and sometimes stage setup must be provided to the IMDA. Whether the show can be held is subject to their approval. This, of course, is to ensure that the contents of such performances do not tread on sensitive topics, especially when it comes to race and religion. This is understandable given that Singapore is a multicultural nation. The government’s top priority is maintaining social cohesion and harmony, so I think you can imagine the trouble it takes to bring extreme metal bands here. Despite this, shows still happen even for bands with “problematic” lyrical themes such as Blood Chalice who came in 2019, and Archgoat in 2018. The IMDA’s go-to method for “dealing” with such shows is usually to enforce an 18+ rating. Unfortunately, there are exceptions to this, like with Watain in 2019: a few hours before they were to perform, the IMDA suddenly retracted their permit for the show and demanded the immediate cancellation of the gig. To this day, the reasons behind this sudden change are not entirely clear, but I would wager that the sudden outrage from incensed christians on social media had something to do with it.
For individual bands and musicians in Singapore, there is practically no censorship. We are free to put out whatever music we like, and this is, in my opinion, a very good thing. The same cannot be said for mainland China. I can hardly imagine having to operate under the perverted boot of communism. I have tried to get Welkin’s music on Chinese platforms to allow fans from China to listen without a VPN, but was unable to get past censorship. In the end, I had to rely on friends over there to help me upload my music.
Q4: The Three Kingdoms is very popular in Japan, and I have loved the story since I was a child, through books, games, and manga. That’s why I am very happy to see a band that deals with the Three Kingdoms in the metal genre, which I also love. Why did you decide to play Black Metal music with the “Three Kingdoms” story?
【HASTHUR】: Before the release of the debut album Recollections of Conquest and Honour, after mixing and mastering were completed (sometime around late 2019 and early 2020), I had already been determined to take Welkin in the direction you see today: that is, in short – a Heroic form of Black Metal, committed to honouring the illustrious history, culture, and traditions of my ancestors. I began working on the album just as I entered high school. During this time was when I also decided on the Chinese name for Welkin, 皇天. Back then, I had only an idea of the spirit I wanted to capture, and still had yet to settle on a concept for the record. It was only until I read this section from chapter 76 of The Romance of The Three Kingdoms itself that some semblance of what was to become 武勇 / Emblems of Valour came to me:
關公正色而言曰：「吾乃解良一武夫，蒙吾主以手足相待，安肯背義投敵國乎？城若破，有死而已。玉可碎而不可改其白，竹可焚而不可毀其節。身雖殞，名可垂於竹帛也。汝勿多言，速請出城。吾欲與孫權決一死戰！」
In English:
Lord Guan [referring to Guan Yu] spoke, his expression stern, “I am but a simple warrior from Jielang, yet my lord and I are sworn to brotherhood. How could I betray him and give myself up to an enemy country? If the city falls, then I shall merely die. Jade may shatter, but its whiteness remains; bamboo may burn, but its joints endure. My body may perish, but my name shall go down in the annals of history. Speak no excess of words, and leave the city, I beseech you. Against Sun Quan, I am resolved to fight to the death!”
I was struck with incredibly profound emotion, and in a flash of inspiration, the final riff from the title track (Emblems of Valour at 9:18) revealed itself to me. It was probably then that I was fully set on dedicating this album to the Three Kingdoms period, and more specifically, to the brothers of Liu Bei, Guan Yu, and Zhang Fei.
【HASTHUR】: デビュー・アルバム “Recollections of Conquest and Honour” のリリース前、ミキシングとマスタリングが完了した後（2019年後半から2020年前半頃）、僕はすでに WELKIN を今日のような方向に持っていこうと決心していたんだ。このアルバムの制作を始めたのは、ちょうど高校に入学した頃だった。WELKIN の中国語名 “皇天” もこの頃に決めた。でもその頃はまだ、自分が表現したい精神のイメージしかなく、アルバムのコンセプトも定まっていなかった。三国志の第76章にあるこの部分を読んで初めて、武勇伝のようなものが浮かんできたんだ。
關公正色而言曰：「吾乃解良一武夫，蒙吾主以手足相待，安肯背義投敵國乎？城若破，有死而已玉可碎而不可改其白，竹可灼不可毀其節，身雖殞，名可垂於竹帛也」
訳すと
(樊城の戦いにおいて) 関公［関羽のこと］は厳しい表情で語った。「私は潔良の一介の武士に過ぎませんが、主君と私は兄弟愛を誓っています。どうして彼を裏切り、敵国に身を委ねることなどできようか。都が陥落すれば、私はただ死ぬだけだ。玉は砕けてもその白さは残り、竹は燃えてもその節は耐える。私の肉体は滅びても、私の名は歴史に残るだろう。余計なことは言わず、この街を去りなさい。孫権と、私は死ぬまで戦うことを決意している！」
僕は信じられないほど深い感動に襲われ、ふとしたひらめきで、タイトル曲の最後のリフ（9分18秒の “Emblems of Valour”）が僕の前に姿を現したんだ。このアルバムを三国時代、特に劉備、関羽、張飛の兄弟に捧げようと完全に心に決めたのは、おそらくその時だったな。
Q5: I was surprised when I heard “武勇” that your black metal fits so well with the Three Kingdoms! To begin with, black metal is a music that originated in Europe with devil worship, so how does it fit so well with Chinese culture, music, and stories?
【HASTHUR】: Some maintain that only “Satanic” Black Metal is “TRVE” Black Metal – I am of the opinion that such people are missing the bigger picture. First we should ask why Satanism and devil worship, in their authentic forms, seem so drawn to the genre. Put simply, it is because Black Metal, driven by an extreme devotion to its ideals, has always sought to go beyond the realm of music, and we can see this very spirit animating many of those first bands that sprung up in the early 90s. Most of them chose to embrace Satanism in radical opposition to Christianity, thus setting a precedent which many bands today still follow, and forever tethering the image of Black Metal to the devil. However, this is but a superficiality – one we must look past if we wish to inquire deeper into the nature of Black Metal. The emergence of Black Metal can only be described as highly anomalistic considering the age we find ourselves living in, and I believe signals, if we are to use the language of Nietzsche, a possible return of the Dionysian to music, as evidenced by that longing to transcend music I mentioned earlier, and Black Metal’s more mystical aspects: its profound ability to completely, and violently, hurl the listener into a flurry of Apolline images before they are utterly shattered, in a single instance, to give way to an enstrengthening of the soul – I cannot find more appropriate a description of how it feels listening to bands like Macabre Omen, Windir, and Bathory. When understood in these terms, the link between Black Metal and Satanism is revealed to be aesthetic rather than essential. Verily, culture and myth offer another way to achieve that same overwhelming exultation, one better suited to what I wish to bring forth with Welkin; and I hope I have been able to accomplish that authentically with 武勇 / Emblems of Valour.
Q6: I see that the album is dedicated to the 劉關張三兄. I too love the Peach Garden Oath 桃園誓scene, Few people today have that much courage and loyalty, don’t they? As the world becomes more convenient and better, are we losing what is important to us?
【HASTHUR】: We live in a time where I can participate in this interview despite us being separated by thousands of kilometres; where with a plane ticket, the whole globe is practically accessible; and where commodities are mass-produced and shipped to us at the press of a button. People don’t even have to leave their homes to socialise anymore, let alone form meaningful bonds: now, there’s always the choice of entering a parasocial relationship with your favourite idol/streamer/etc, which is absurd when you really think about it! We are well and truly in the era of convenience, and the driving force behind this convenience is – Technology – or rather, the technological worldview: modern man conceives of the world as being wholly external to himself, as something that challenges him, and thus, something to be conquered, something to impose his will upon; and insofar as he is blinded by this artificial provocation, nature is to him merely a store of resources to be exploited, raped, and pillaged in the name “progress,” and nothing more. Man is alienated from himself, violently severed from the past, and enthralled by an illusory future; Being is reduced to a great nothingness, to nil; and the supreme poetry of existence is cut off, left unheard and forgotten. In such a world, whither are higher ideals to be found? And, indeed, how could they be found when modern man’s highest greatest preoccupation is preserving his hollow comfort?
At the bottom of modernity lies a gaping nihilism, and we are caged within it by technology. Let this not, however, be a call to forego technological advancement, or to embrace crude primitivism. Man must instead, to quote Martin Heidegger, gain a “free relationship to [technology].” Only then shall there be any possibility of the return of a mode of Being that gazes beyond just the material. In the words of the great Mishima Yukio:
[If] one cannot find a value that transcends oneself, life itself, in a spiritual sense, is rendered meaningless.
Q7: By the way, I like 張任 and 姜維, except for the three brothers, but which general is special to you? And Why?
【HASTHUR】: This is a hard question. There are just too many interesting characters from the Three Kingdoms period! But if I had to choose, it’d definitely be Xiahou Dun (夏侯惇). There is this famous scene in the novel from chapter 18:
卻說夏侯惇引軍前進，正與高順軍相遇，便挺槍出馬搦戰。高順迎敵。兩馬相交，戰有四五十合，高順抵敵不住，敗下陣來。惇縱馬追趕，順遶陣而走。惇不捨，亦遶陣追之。陣上曹性看見，暗地拈弓搭箭，覷得真切，一箭射去，正中夏侯惇左目，惇大叫一聲，急用手拔箭，不想連眼珠拔出；乃大呼曰：「父精母血，不可棄也！」遂納於口內啖之，仍復挺槍縱馬，直取曹性。性不及提防，早被一槍搠透面門，死於馬下。兩邊軍士見者，無不駭然
In English:
The armies led by Xiahou Dun advanced under his command, meeting first with Gao Shun’s troops, upon which Xiahou Dun rode out, spear readied, to offer a challenge. Gao Shun accepted, and on horseback, the two generals exchanged forty to fifty blows, but Gao Shun could not match his foe and was forced to retreat. Xiahou Dun gave chase, and not one to falter, followed his adversary deep into enemy lines. It was then that Cao Xing, still unnoticed, nocked an arrow, and drew his bowstring, firing when he saw his target was near enough. The arrow flew and struck Xiahou Dun squarely in his left eye. He shrieked and hurriedly pulled out the arrow, not expecting that his eye would come out with it. “Essence of my father, blood of my mother – this I cannot relinquish!” he cried, proceeding to put the eye in his mouth, and swallowed it whole. Then, Xiahou Dun once more readied his spear, and rode towards Cao Xing. The latter, unable to guard against this in time, was speared through the face, and died by his horse. Soldiers from both sides were left dumbstruck at the sight.
Simply incredible.
Q8: What is the story or time period you are trying to depict in “除邪”？
【HASTHUR】: There isn’t really any story depicted in the “除邪 / Will to Purification” compilation. However, the cover art is from a collection of paintings from the Qing Dynasty known as the 《謹遵聖諭辟邪全圖》 (Obey the Imperial Edict to Expel Evil). The “evil” in this case refers to Christianity. The essence of this release is self-overcoming and total rejection of slave morality.
Q8: 前作の “除邪” でも歴史的なテーマを扱っていたのでしょうか？
【HASTHUR】: ““除邪 / Will to Purification” はコンピレーションのようなもので、描かれているストーリーは特にないよ。だけど、アートワークは清朝時代の絵画集 “謹遵聖諭辟邪全圖”（悪を祓う勅令に従え）なんだ。この場合の “悪” とはキリスト教のこと。この解放の本質は、自己克服と奴隷道徳の完全否定だ。
Q9: Recently, metal has drawn inspiration from a variety of sources, including old Memphis music, classical music, folk music, and even Japanese video game music. Do you welcome such diversification and expansion of metal, especially black metal?
【HASTHUR】: I don’t think it’s inherently bad. Consuming a wide variety of music is how each musician shapes their sense of melody, harmony, rhythm and musical structure, and through this process, develops their own unique sound. But when consciously choosing to incorporate certain elements that lie outside the scope of a genre into a piece of music, one must ask themselves, “Is this appropriate? Or do I just want to add X because it sounds exotic?” In the case of folk instruments and folk melodies, or anything associated with a well-established culture for that matter, the answer to this question is what separates a truly unique composition from reductionist orientalism/occidentalism/making a fool of oneself.
Outside of metal, I’m influenced by a lot of classical music (the works of Richard Wagner in particular), JRPG soundtracks, film scores and, of course, Chinese folk songs and neofolk.
I am eternally grateful to all the Japanese fans that have supported Welkin through the years. Even from the days of the debut album Recollections of Conquest and Honour, I know I received no shortage of orders from Japan! For this, I thank each and every one of you from the bottom of my heart.
長年にわたって WELKIN を応援してくれた日本のファンのみんなには、感謝の気持ちでいっぱいだよ。デビュー・アルバム “Recollections of Conquest and Honour（征服と名誉の回想）”の頃から、日本からの注文には事欠かなかった！その一人一人に心から感謝しているよ。
